Power Washing and Roof Cleaning Forum

Chris Mozick · Approved Exteior Cleaner

Sodium precobonate

waxman18324 · Founding Member Rest in Peace

If it's available locally I would stick with sodium hypochlorite mix for asphalt and slate roofs.

Hank

Chris Mozick · Approved Exteior Cleaner

Ok will do I heard that boost the sh so u can use less

Maverick Contracting · Approved Exterior Cleaner

regarding s. percarb on cedar shingles...

Does anybody know what ratio of 99% pure to a gallon, 5 gallons etc.?

I have a massive house to do with 3 stories that I want to apply with a 7gpm fatboy for height and saturation, then pressure wash off.

Also hope crystals don't damage diagpham.

Jeff Wible · Approved Exterior Cleaner

Hey Maverick,..usually 8 OZ. per gallon mixed in hot water is the way to use Sodium Percarbonate. If you bump it up a little with the addition of Sodium Hydroxide you'll get a more effective mix,..adding a surfactant is a good idea as well. Cling and helps stay wet longer,..same as on asphalt shingles. The Hydroxide will also help dissolve Sodium Percarbonate if hot water isn't available.

These days,..on raw wood cleaning of any type I prefer to make a hot batch of Sodium Hydroxide and DS. Much faster and works the same. 8 OZ. per gallon is a good start,..but hydroxide can be mixed really hot though.

Neutralize with Oxalic acid,..I never tried Citric acid,..but I remember people using it years agoto neutralize.

*I hate older cedar shingles that have physical growth coming out of the edges,...in fact,..I would turn those down these days, Ha, Ha,..

Jeff

BlueRidge · Approved Exterior Cleaner

Jeff Wible wrote:
Hey Maverick,..usually 8 OZ. per gallon mixed in hot water is the way to use Sodium Percarbonate. If you bump it up a little with the addition of Sodium Hydroxide you'll get a more effective mix,..adding a surfactant is a good idea as well. Cling and helps stay wet longer,..same as on asphalt shingles. The Hydroxide will also help dissolve Sodium Percarbonate if hot water isn't available.

These days,..on raw wood cleaning of any type I prefer to make a hot batch of Sodium Hydroxide and DS. Much faster and works the same. 8 OZ. per gallon is a good start,..but hydroxide can be mixed really hot though.

Neutralize with Oxalic acid,..I never tried Citric acid,..but I remember people using it years agoto neutralize.

*I hate older cedar shingles that have physical growth coming out of the edges,...in fact,..I would turn those down these days, Ha, Ha,..

Jeff

Great answer Jeff! The only thing we do different is pre-wet to help with the cling. Also totally agree with you on older cedar with the "hair" moss/algae growing out of the butt end.

I hope you are using a lift, I would never take the chance with a cedar or slate roof. We either won't do the roof or they agree to cleaning from the gutter line. As long as the precarbonate is dissolved like Jeff said, there won't be any crystals going through the pump. When we used 12v pumps daily, I found the higher big jobs would kill the pump with all the head pressure. I would consider the pump as part of the job quote.

Maverick Contracting · Approved Exterior Cleaner

this property is only greyed out, no grime or growth.

May just percarb and then rinse w/o pressure as there are a lot of hard areas to reach.

My question is what ratio dependant on what the percentage of dry percarb?

8oz of 99% pure S.P. to a gallon or a lower % dry S.p.? and how many sq/ft that will do?

-- Edited by Maverick Contracting on Sunday 25th of July 2021 03:29:44 PM

-- Edited by Maverick Contracting on Sunday 25th of July 2021 03:37:39 PM

Jeff Wible · Approved Exterior Cleaner

Yes,Maverick,..8oz. of 99% powder Sodium Percarbonate per gallon. 8 oz is always a good starting point,..you may be able to up it a few points,..but Sodium Percarbonate has a saturation point,..meaning only so much can be dissolved in a gallon of water. But to me,..looking at the pictures,..8oz. should work just fine.

*Man,..that's alot of shakes to clean!! And will look really nice when it's done. Are you sealing it also?

Jeff

Maverick Contracting · Approved Exterior Cleaner

I hope NOT to seal only because of how many hard to get to areas safely AND trying to put up protection for painted areas, windows, etc.

cleaning alone depending on how it's done will easily be guestimate $30k-$60k plus scaffolding guesting $20k-$30k plus materials ?$ etc.

If we stain that's gonna be a lot more money and has to be done by hand as its beachfront and super windy. you'd lose 90% material blowing away spraying with an airless.

if just cleaning with 12V a 50-60ft articulating boom lift would be ideal but property manager absolutely said no to that.

-- Edited by Maverick Contracting on Monday 26th of July 2021 07:47:02 AM

Jeff Wible · Approved Exterior Cleaner

Yea man,..that's crazy! Why do people use high maintenance materials like wood on such hard to reach areas. May look nice,..but for me I'm a "form follows function" guy.

*Maverick,..ever think of saying "NO",...Ha, Ha,... Feels so good sometimes!!

Jeff

Maverick Contracting · Approved Exterior Cleaner

these are Hampton homes, the natural greyed weathered look is normal. Nearly every house is built like this. Its a $15 million home and that's cheap, many go way past $30 million and this guy keeps us busy 4 months a year plus another main home so if he wants something done my job is to figure out the best and most efficient way to do it.

Oh and as of last night I got the ok for an atrium lift or tracked spider lift which is another challenge finding just the right one! But will make it much easier.

I say no to many small one time customers that try to lowball me.

This guy owns a hedge fund and as long as I justify the cost, hes ok with the money.
Have a handful of customers like this
guaranteed yearly work for life.

-- Edited by Maverick Contracting on Tuesday 27th of July 2021 08:06:44 AM

Jeff Wible · Approved Exterior Cleaner

Hey Maverick,..yea,..I agree,..good customers are woth the effort!

Here is one thing I know about Sodium Percarbonate,...It creates alot of "oxygen" or "air" when it's mixed,...12v pumps don't like a mix that is full of air. The 12V will groan and growl as it tries to gain full prime. Just something to keep in mind.

Also,..it's always been said that Sodium Percarbonate has a mix life of approximately six hours? I never had that much time in using it,..so I really don't know first hand.

Jeff

Maverick Contracting · Approved Exterior Cleaner

damn good point on the air stalling issue with 12v!

may tey X-jet it but that would dilute too much.
Sh!t good catch I never took that into account.

I do have a foamer canister but too small.

another monkey wrench!

So how do others apply percarb?

maybe Bruce will chime in? lol

-- Edited by Maverick Contracting on Tuesday 27th of July 2021 12:12:09 PM

Jeff Wible · Approved Exterior Cleaner

Maybe after it sits for an hour or so after first mixing it may be ok?? Maybe the air is worse when first mixed? I always used mine right after mixing and I remember the growling my small 5 gallon 12v sprayer did. I think for larger jobs I made a dip tube for 5 gallon bucket and used my AAOD roof pump.

I also remember years ago using Sodium Percarbonate in pump sprayers,..have to be careful there to because when mixed it releases gas and makes a pump sprayer expand when not being sprayed. Never really had to pump much though,..Ha, Ha,..

I rarely use Sodium Percarbonate,..I prefer Sodium Hydroxide,..does the same thing and is easier to mix,..and in the case of a 12V,..wouldn't cause the growling. But,..jobs around water may require the use of Sodium Percarbonate,...in case anyone would walk up and ask.

I think Bruce had some concoction of his own he was using,...it was something proprietary? But,..he has sprayed Sodium Percarbonate at one point in his life,...so he may have some input.

*Experiment a little with DS'ing Sodium Hydroxide. Either for this job or for future use. Once you get that figured out I think you'll like it. Start with 8 OZ. per gallon and DS,..and then adjust your mix from there.

**I've never x-jetted but Sodium Hydroxide could also be applied that way ,...just have to adjust your mix. Takes a little experimenting.

Jeff

-- Edited by Jeff Wible on Wednesday 28th of July 2021 05:46:56 AM

BlueRidge · Approved Exterior Cleaner

Maverick Contracting wrote:
damn good point on the air stalling issue with 12v!

may tey X-jet it but that would dilute too much.
Sh!t good catch I never took that into account.

I do have a foamer canister but too small.

another monkey wrench!

So how do others apply percarb?
maybe Bruce will chime in? lol

-- Edited by Maverick Contracting on Tuesday 27th of July 2021 12:12:09 PM

Whenever doing decks we mix percarbonate with hydroxide. This mix was thanks to David Hoover (Pink Elephant). We always apply with a 12v pump I screwed on the top of a 5 gal bucket and just set the lid there without locking it on. I also got a tractor battery that I keep in a Rubbermaid container with a switch. I had some leftover hose and used Banjo fittings on both ends (our poly guns have female Banjo fittings).

Bruce sprays bleach on everything. He doesn't used precarbonate of hydroxide. To be honest, his "proprietary blend" is something we came up with. He then started his Cedar thing charging people to certify them. Many fell for it.

Maverick Contracting · Approved Exterior Cleaner

I thought Bruce used percarbonate?
I'm not using hydroxide aka lye/draino.

Its just weathered grey and even new shingles from window replacement 2 years ago are greyed so unless they are treated with a finish it's not gonna last.

first pic was may 2019

-- Edited by Maverick Contracting on Thursday 29th of July 2021 10:17:59 AM

Jeff Wible · Approved Exterior Cleaner

Hey Maverick,..NAOH can be mixed very broadly,..from very mild,..to extremely hot. I don't blame you for not wanting to use it I guess,...But it really is a great cleaner of raw wood when mixed properly. Being able to make it hot is what makes DS'ing it so appealing. You can apply very fast!!

Best of luck though whatever you end up doing,...keep us informed.

Yea,..I have no clue what Bruce was using,..I think Brett is right,....Bruce was most likely doing what many others have done,...make as much off the new guys as they can.

I think the addition of NAOH to Sodium Percarbonate, as Brett mentioned may be eliminating the air bubbles issue in the mix,...Not sure though,..I remember mixing those two as well years ago,...but then realized I didn't see any real difference when using only NAOH by itself. Everyone has their own tweaks when using chemicals I guess,..none necessarily right or wrong.

Jeff

Maverick Contracting · Approved Exterior Cleaner

it will eat paint and we just finished an expensive job on this property

Jeff Wible · Approved Exterior Cleaner

Hey Maverick,...I'm not suggesting you to get out of your comfort zone, just giving you some info on another cleaner you may want to try at some point. And yes Sodium Percarbonate is about as safe as it gets. But NAOH will only attack paint if mixed to hot. I used to use NAOH and SH together as a house wash recipe a long time ago. Very effective,..but now I prefer to see soap in my mix,...And in most cases NAOH is an unnecessary additive.

It sounds like you have never really messed with NAOH,...so,..I don't blame you for not wanting to try it.

NAOH is used in toothpaste. "Ripleys, Beleive it,.... or Not",..Ha, Ha,..

Jeff