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Post Info TOPIC: To "air" or Not to "air"


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Happy new year to everyone, hope you all have a great year. I have considered air for several years but its hard to get air pumps this side of the water at a reasonable price. Would this cheap pump be any good as a starter?
Happybuy Air-Operated Double Diaphragm Pump 1/2 inch Inlet Outlet Polypropylene 13 GPM Max 100PSI for Chemical Industrial Use, QBY-15PP

It's on Amazon. As for 12v I have switched to Shurflo pumps which I find to be way better than any other ones I have used in the past.

www.rutlandpumps.com/shurflo-5059-bypass-12v-90psi-20lpm-12-f.html

www.rutlandpumps.com/shurflo-5059-pressure-switch-12v-60psi-20lpm-12-f.html

There are a couple of other choices on this website as well. The only problem I had with the shurflo pump with the pressure switch was the guys not turning down the power and blowing the pressure switch. I am using the pump with the internal bypass at the moment and it works fine. We have only been using it for a couple of months so don't know how long it will last.

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  I am happy with the 1/2" All Flo.  I have mine set up with 5/8" hose and a 20cfm air compressor.  I'm not sure how much of a difference it would make by going with the 1/2" hose.  I was always told more air and more flow.  It would be nice to see a side by side difference on 1/2" and 5/8" hose from the same pump.  If it was a matter of just a few feet, I would just go down to the 1/2" (cheaper and lighter). 



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Hey there Michael,..I don't know enough about those pumps. If it's the poly with santoprene diaphragms and check balls it "may" be ok.,...especially for the cost. But having an air pump that is chemical "proof" is only part of the battle,..potential leaks and it being stall free is important. My recommendation is do what you think, Ha, Ha,..

But if you're currently using 12V,.I would just buy an All-Flo if you can get it shipped over. Will be an investment and will be a trouble free option with the proper plumbing/setup.

I had a bolted together Versa-Matic a few years ago and it was a POS,...leaks. So,..I recommend to anyone,..with any AODD pump that you replace any nuts with nylon lock nuts,...I even had to do that with my All-Flo. Although it's a clamped together style pump,..there are still bolts that hold the top and bottom together,...and they would come loose,..so I replaced with nylon lock nuts,..and never been an issue since.

Sorry I couldn't be more help.

Jeff

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Bought a 1/2 inch all flo. Will update the other post as parts come in and I start building.

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Erik Baumer

Roof Cleaning Video

Long island roof and exterior cleaning

Long Island Cedar Shake Cleaning

Pressure Washing Long Island NY

516-804-0447



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Jeff you are a mine of information and great to share it. Thank you and everyone else for the replies.

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Debated for way too long on compressor. 

Pretty sure this will be its permanent location.



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Erik Baumer

Roof Cleaning Video

Long island roof and exterior cleaning

Long Island Cedar Shake Cleaning

Pressure Washing Long Island NY

516-804-0447



Approved Exterior Cleaner

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To "air" or Not to "air"
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Looking nice Erik,..good quality compressor!

Just a thought on the new aluminum bed. Is it possible at all in your thoughts to maybe put an aluminum flat "top" on the ladder rack? Would be very beneficial in keeping the direct Sun/UV rays off your nice new equipment. Would also give some rain protection. Just wondering about that,..as I have wondered before when I seen these type rigs. I'd like to have a roof of sorts I think.

Jeff



-- Edited by Jeff Wible on Wednesday 29th of January 2020 01:01:48 PM

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Raystown Pressure Washing

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Ok so I need some feedback from you guys.

I bought a aftermarket regulator and filter (see pic) because it was recommended. But almost all compressors especially big money ones come w a regulator built in. Wouldnt the regulator on the  compressor do the same job?

I know i need a water separator  before the pump, Does a water seperator act as a regular filter as well? 

I'm not fond of the way this is set up in the pic. I'd prefer to have

hose connected directly to compressor- then the other end at water seperator - then pump.

Also is it ok to use 90 degree fittings for air hose in a application like this?

 

I have 25 ft coiled up under compressor. Should of went w 50ft....plenty of room. 



-- Edited by DirtyRoofcom on Wednesday 29th of January 2020 02:20:50 PM

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Erik Baumer

Roof Cleaning Video

Long island roof and exterior cleaning

Long Island Cedar Shake Cleaning

Pressure Washing Long Island NY

516-804-0447



Approved Exterior Cleaner

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Jeff Wible wrote:

Looking nice Erik,..good quality compressor!

Just a thought on the new aluminum bed. Is it possible at all in your thoughts to maybe put an aluminum flat "top" on the ladder rack? Would be very beneficial in keeping the direct Sun/UV rays off your nice new equipment. Would also give some rain protection. Just wondering about that,..as I have wondered before when I seen these type rigs. I'd like to have a roof of sorts I think.

Jeff



-- Edited by Jeff Wible on Wednesday 29th of January 2020 01:01:48 PM


 Thanks Jeff.  After much debate I picked this because it was locally available, should last a decade or more and was middle of the road w CFM (13.1)

 I know what you mean but I think even w a roof all this equipment will suffer to the elements no matter what. It would be nice if it stayed like this forever.  I am toying  w the idea of covers for the pw and compressor similar to what you would have on barbeque or patio furniture. Although a good idea probably just fly off on the expressway at some point.

 



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Erik Baumer

Roof Cleaning Video

Long island roof and exterior cleaning

Long Island Cedar Shake Cleaning

Pressure Washing Long Island NY

516-804-0447



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An air regulator and water separator are different things.,...one is not the same as the other. You can get them as a combination,...but they still perform different tasks.

I prefer the water seperator closest to the pump,..the regulator can be anywhere before the pump. If possible,..put your air compressor supply hose inside the buffer tank,..and then run it to the pump. This may not be necessary,..but it's so simple and cheap,..and it really helps if stalling ends up being an issue.  The All-Flo's perform very well on their  own,..but even one stall is irritating, Ha, Ha,..

Air hose out of the compressor,..then the coils into the tank,...then the air hose into the regulator,..then to the water seperator,...and then into the pump. The water makes for better cooling of the compressed air,..which allows the separator to work the way it should.

*Yes,..you can use 90 degree elbows , not gonna hurt.


Jeff






-- Edited by Jeff Wible on Thursday 30th of January 2020 05:44:17 AM

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Another thing Erik,..I know that's a nice new compressor, and you may not want to start modifying it,...but one way or the other the instructions to "drain daily" is very important for keeping the compressor working properly and not putting undue strain on the compressor pump. As water builds in the tanks from compressing the humid air,..it will quickly begin to take up the tanks' air volume.

So, you can either open the PITA petkoks on a regular basis,..or you can "T" off the tanks and run a line to an easily accessible spot on the compressor or even the truck bed,.. and attach a ball valve,..and then when it's time to drain,..simply open the valve while the tanks are full of air,...and it will blow the water out very effectively,..and makes a typically PITA job very easy.

Ball valve can be mounted above or below the tanks.

This valve also pulls double duty,..because it also acts as an "easy start" valve. 

Jeff



-- Edited by Jeff Wible on Thursday 30th of January 2020 06:14:45 AM

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DirtyRoofcom wrote:

Ok so I need some feedback from you guys.

I bought a aftermarket regulator and filter (see pic) because it was recommended. But almost all compressors especially big money ones come w a regulator built in. Wouldnt the regulator on the  compressor do the same job?

I know i need a water separator  before the pump, Does a water seperator act as a regular filter as well? 

I'm not fond of the way this is set up in the pic. I'd prefer to have

hose connected directly to compressor- then the other end at water seperator - then pump.

Also is it ok to use 90 degree fittings for air hose in a application like this?

 

I have 25 ft coiled up under compressor. Should of went w 50ft....plenty of room. 



-- Edited by DirtyRoofcom on Wednesday 29th of January 2020 02:20:50 PM


  Same exact compressor I have...has been a good one....like Jeff says, drain daily, on long days we drain before every job.  Also be sure to run a vent tube from the SH tank out to back of truck....you'll thank me later....we use the Tsunami filter...we have used the one in your pic before but they dont last long....



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Approved Exterior Cleaner

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Jeff your right I have to do that modification. The drain valves are now located in the middle of the truck and draining them there will be messy and inconvenient. I like the idea if a "T" and one valve.
Is there a kit for this?

Jeff look at the pic in the above post.  I now have 2 regulators on the setup. Pretty sure this is unnecessary 



-- Edited by DirtyRoofcom on Thursday 30th of January 2020 07:01:00 AM

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Erik Baumer

Roof Cleaning Video

Long island roof and exterior cleaning

Long Island Cedar Shake Cleaning

Pressure Washing Long Island NY

516-804-0447



Approved Exterior Cleaner

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Correct Erik,..one regulator is all you need. And with a good quality water trap, as Doug mentioned may allow you to forego the idea of the coiled hose through the buffer tank,....but the principle of cooling the air remains the same. A water trap works better when the moisture in the compressed air is turned from vapor to droplets. You'll know at some point what works for you.

To my knowledge there isn't a kit for this modification for your drain daily,..wish they would just do that with compressors at the factory. Simple enough though,...my compressor had screw in petkoks,...I was able to simply take them out and insert my own 1/4" fittings. It's fairly simple,..just sit down and draw it out on paper. And then go get the pieces you need.

Jeff



-- Edited by Jeff Wible on Thursday 30th of January 2020 11:02:26 AM

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Doug Rucker wrote:
DirtyRoofcom wrote:

Ok so I need some feedback from you guys.

I bought a aftermarket regulator and filter (see pic) because it was recommended. But almost all compressors especially big money ones come w a regulator built in. Wouldnt the regulator on the  compressor do the same job?

I know i need a water separator  before the pump, Does a water seperator act as a regular filter as well? 

I'm not fond of the way this is set up in the pic. I'd prefer to have

hose connected directly to compressor- then the other end at water seperator - then pump.

Also is it ok to use 90 degree fittings for air hose in a application like this?

 

I have 25 ft coiled up under compressor. Should of went w 50ft....plenty of room. 



-- Edited by DirtyRoofcom on Wednesday 29th of January 2020 02:20:50 PM


  Same exact compressor I have...has been a good one....like Jeff says, drain daily, on long days we drain before every job.  Also be sure to run a vent tube from the SH tank out to back of truck....you'll thank me later....we use the Tsunami filter...we have used the one in your pic before but they dont last long....


 Doug, vent the SH tank? Or you mean the compressor tanks?



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Erik Baumer

Roof Cleaning Video

Long island roof and exterior cleaning

Long Island Cedar Shake Cleaning

Pressure Washing Long Island NY

516-804-0447



Approved Exterior Cleaner

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Date:
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DirtyRoofcom wrote:
Doug Rucker wrote:
DirtyRoofcom wrote:

Ok so I need some feedback from you guys.

I bought a aftermarket regulator and filter (see pic) because it was recommended. But almost all compressors especially big money ones come w a regulator built in. Wouldnt the regulator on the  compressor do the same job?

I know i need a water separator  before the pump, Does a water seperator act as a regular filter as well? 

I'm not fond of the way this is set up in the pic. I'd prefer to have

hose connected directly to compressor- then the other end at water seperator - then pump.

Also is it ok to use 90 degree fittings for air hose in a application like this?

 

I have 25 ft coiled up under compressor. Should of went w 50ft....plenty of room. 



-- Edited by DirtyRoofcom on Wednesday 29th of January 2020 02:20:50 PM


  Same exact compressor I have...has been a good one....like Jeff says, drain daily, on long days we drain before every job.  Also be sure to run a vent tube from the SH tank out to back of truck....you'll thank me later....we use the Tsunami filter...we have used the one in your pic before but they dont last long....


 Doug, vent the SH tank? Or you mean the compressor tanks?


 SH Tank.....But you have to set your SH tank to feed through a drop tube....this way you never open your SH tank lid.   



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Doug Rucker 

Doug Ruckers Pressure Cleaning School

Call or Text 281.883.8470

 

Awesome Houston Texas Pressure Washing Services

 



Approved Exterior Cleaner

Status: Offline
Posts: 823
Date:
Permalink  
 

DirtyRoofcom wrote:

Ok so I need some feedback from you guys.

I bought a aftermarket regulator and filter (see pic) because it was recommended. But almost all compressors especially big money ones come w a regulator built in. Wouldnt the regulator on the  compressor do the same job?

I know i need a water separator  before the pump, Does a water seperator act as a regular filter as well? 

I'm not fond of the way this is set up in the pic. I'd prefer to have

hose connected directly to compressor- then the other end at water seperator - then pump.

Also is it ok to use 90 degree fittings for air hose in a application like this?

 

I have 25 ft coiled up under compressor. Should of went w 50ft....plenty of room. 



-- Edited by DirtyRoofcom on Wednesday 29th of January 2020 02:20:50 PM


 

Just bought this compressor for my 1/2 inch all flo...wow what a difference more CFM makes......

 

HF Compressor.JPG



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Doug Rucker 

Doug Ruckers Pressure Cleaning School

Call or Text 281.883.8470

 

Awesome Houston Texas Pressure Washing Services

 



Approved Exterior Cleaner

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Heres the answer to my "2" regulator question above

The 2nd regulator goes after the water seperator. These filters have a tendency to restrict the pressure. If you set the regulator on the compressor at your desired 90psi. The psi on the other side of the filters can be lower.

Its recommended to set the compressor regulator higher (100-110) and adjust the regulator after the filter to your desired PSI (90).

I bought a very good seperator from a auto body supply place and they explained all of this to me.



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Erik Baumer

Roof Cleaning Video

Long island roof and exterior cleaning

Long Island Cedar Shake Cleaning

Pressure Washing Long Island NY

516-804-0447



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Hey Erik,..I respectfully say,..that is way overthought. I personally have never heard of having to use two regulators,..seems pointless in the grand scheme of things,...doesn't mean some people don't do it,..I just never heard of it. I can't see the benefit,...the reasoning you were given by the body shop salesman is really getting into the minutia of a typical system.

The regulator on a compressor restricts air, that is what creates more PSI,...so even if the water seperator is restricting air,..it's not hurting anything,..you can put the regulator before or after the water trap,..and you will see no difference. If you're worried about it restricting,..just put the regulator last in line to the pump.

Wherever you put it,..simply adjust the PSI to suit your pumps needs. Right next to the pump,..as I mentioned,..will suffice for your concern.

With that said,..you can can use as two regulators if you prefer,..not gonna hurt anything,..just pointless is all.

If anything,..the second regulator will cause a "possible" decrease in the all important CFM.

*Reminds me of a well respected member of the forums years ago that tried to explain why some people get streaks on siding while others don't. He said,..when people spray soap on the house from the top down,..as opposed to the " from the bottom up theory",.....He said,..the water in the soap was evaporating thus making the soap too strong for the siding,..resulting in streaks. He had people agreeing with him,...those were sheep. I was the first one to say,..seems way overthought.

Jeff

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RE: To "air" or Not to "air"
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Good points Jeff. I believe you're right. I'll probably just go w one.



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Erik Baumer

Roof Cleaning Video

Long island roof and exterior cleaning

Long Island Cedar Shake Cleaning

Pressure Washing Long Island NY

516-804-0447



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Hey Erik,..you can use two if you like,..I was just expressing my opinion,..as I'm prone to do sometimes.

Jeff

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